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[cite] Carl:[/cite]Certainly, we agree that "want" precedes "belief". However, you imply that we, the believers, have enough free will to "hide from ourselves that we made it up". If anything, resulting "beliefs" feed back on the causative "wants" (often in a vicious circle) deepening self ignorance. How much 'outside his box' awareness can a 'believer' experience? Belief's obsession (the little Hitler in us all) is utterly ignorant. Being so, how can 'he' know anything? Sure, our little 'Hitler' thinks that he knows, but in the end, ignorant is ignorant.